Yeah, well there are plenty of other potential fucking assholes who do have internet access and look at all kinds of websites and see the infamy of their predecessors. But this thread isn't about that so I won't comment further.
posted by Beti at 10:02 PM on November 13, in thread 154694
No, I think I'll call them exactly what they are, which is "fucking cowardly terrorists". YMMV.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 10:11 PM on November 13, in thread 154694
I wonder what color glass the Syrian desert will be when this plays out to its nasty end.
Isis can go fuck themselves.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 3:53 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
Since Isis wants to be a "state" now I sincerely hope that France does treat this as an act of war by such a state and acts appropriately.
France has already bombed IS. Perhaps they should turn Syria 'into glass' and see what Russia has to say about that.
posted by colie at 4:17 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
US soldiers killed at least 100,000 Iraqis.
On top of all the ones they porno-tortured, DVDs of which are available in any middle east market. And still people ask 'why do they hate us?'
posted by colie at 4:24 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
Since this is still standing in spite of flags – it would be nice if "the Syrian desert" (there are also mountains in Syria where Daesh are active) were NOT turned to glass since people other than Daesh members live there.
I would also appreciate – since clearly flags aren't being listened to (I'm not only referring to the one comment) – if this thread were a lot less death wish and a lot more informative? I had hoped that would go without saying, as was the case in the 9/11 thread?
posted by fraula at 4:25 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
I would also appreciate – since clearly flags aren't being listened to (I'm not only referring to the one comment) – if this thread were a lot less death wish and a lot more informative?
Yes, I completely agree.
posted by winna at 4:48 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
I've been tweeting about Scott Anderson's great book "Lawrence in Arabia." How is it relevant? Read the book to find out.
I didn't know till 5 minutes ago that 40 people in Beirut were murdered the other night. Nothing in my Twitter feed Friday morning. Huh.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 5:15 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
On average 36 died by gun violence yesterday in the US. The US has experienced 288 mass shootings in the last year. Shall we apply all these imagined proposals against refugees and Muslims to target young white men responsible for so many terrorists acts in the US?
posted by humanfont at 6:03 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
Respectfully, Sir Rinse, that event is only related by time. A coordinated terrorist attack such as what happened in Paris last night takes many months to prepare and was planned long before the drone strike on Emwazi.
posted by AGameOfMoans at 6:09 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
I just screwed up the link cause I'm on my phone, but there was a tweet apparently from an Isis Twitter account naming Rome, London, Washington and others next.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 6:10 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
Klaxon - did they also call lots of people apostates and proclaim the rise of a new caliphate with peace and enough to eat?
Because that's what they do. Pay it no heed, and don't help it spread. Don't find the link.
posted by cromagnon at 6:15 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
But equating such actions to the actions of a terrorist state like ISIS and their actions - such as what happened last evening - is not only a false comparison but does great injustice to the victims of such terrorism. We did not force the hands of terrorists to do the things they did last night - they, and the people behind them, take all the responsibility for that on their own heads. I do not remotely accept blaming the victims here.
“The story of terrorism is written by the state and it is therefore highly instructive . . . compared with terrorism, everything else must be acceptable, or in any case more rational and democratic.†- Guy Debord
Read Living Under Drones: Death, Injury and Trauma to Civilians from US Drone Practices in Pakistan and tell me that you can draw a bright, clear line between the indiscriminate murder of civilians it describes and what happened last night.
ISIS and Western elites are both parasites on decent people in the states they occupy, mirror one another in their depravity and nihilism, and are dependent on each other to exist.
posted by ryanshepard at 6:19 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
LeRoienJaune: I will, in fact, advocate Western imperialism as a preferable alternate to the present genocidal anarchy of the Syrian civil war.
I'm not going to waste my energy explaining to you why advocating for Western imperialism is a repugnant and racist remark. Go fuck yourself.
angrycat: I'm reminded of something the great Dexter Filkins wrote about 9/11: the evening of the attacks, he got around the perimeter and somewhere near the towers site came across some human remains on the street. I think he had just returned from the Middle East and he wrote something to the effect of the mind-scrambling feeling that what he was seeing a scene that he had come across in say, Lebanon.
Are you fucking kidding me?
Oh I see, you can't even remember what he wrote, so you'll just name some random country in the vicinity of "middle east", because surely our street corners are all strewn with random human remains.
Yeah, go fuck yourself.
angrycat: Because similar to NYC in 9/11, I guess the ME has been horrifically dropped on the head of Parisians, and what good can come of this, I wonder.
What the fuck is even supposed to mean.
posted by xqwzts at 6:28 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
Poland says it cannot accept migrants under EU quotas, following attacks in Paris
Presumably they were being asked to take French migrants, since the only attacker so far identified was French just like the Hebdo killers.
posted by colie at 6:38 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
LeRoienJaune: I will, in fact, advocate Western imperialism as a preferable alternate to the present genocidal anarchy of the Syrian civil war.
Advocating for Western imperialism is a racist comment.
angrycat: he got around the perimeter and somewhere near the towers site came across some human remains on the street. I think he had just returned from the Middle East and he wrote something to the effect of the mind-scrambling feeling that what he was seeing a scene that he had come across in say, Lebanon.
Making an offhand claim about some country you couldn't even be bother to look up being strewn with human remains on the street is a racist comment.
angrycat: Because similar to NYC in 9/11, I guess the ME has been horrifically dropped on the head of Parisians, and what good can come of this, I wonder.
This sentence, in all its absurdity, is a racist comment.
dazed_one : Could we bring back the Ottomans?
Yes, let us bring back the empire that tortured, murdered, and starved the whole region. I will allow others far calmer than I am right now the opportunity to explain to you Turkey's involvement in this shit show. Turkey, the NATO member, that has been arming, supplying, treating, and supporting ISIS for the past few years. Let's bring them back. Perhaps it would be better if you actually alleviated your ignorance on the matter before commenting. This is a racist comment.
posted by xqwzts at 6:45 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
self-deleted - mods feel free to delete this please :)
posted by AGameOfMoans at 6:52 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
Because there are too many to point out: http://metatalk.metafilter.com/23891/We-need-to-have-a-discussion-about-racism
posted by xqwzts at 6:57 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
dazed_one - perhaps this is not the right time for such arguments ?
posted by AGameOfMoans at 9:52 AM on November 14 [+] [!]
It's an uncomfortable discussion, to be sure, but when western nations are trying to figure out how to respond the horror in Paris, perhaps that is the moment to discuss the reasons why it happened and what the outcomes may be?
posted by dazed_one at 6:59 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
Randomly attacking random people in a shopping and restaurant district *on purpose* is way worse in intent than anything GWB did.
Really?
I tend to look at numbers. Ordering a military action that results in the death of 100,000+ civilians is not worse than the killing of 200+ innocents (or 3000+ innocents for that matter)?
That implies that an Iraqi life is worth no more than 3000/100000 that of a western life. Is this the argument?
posted by Artful Codger at 9:05 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
That implies that an Iraqi life is worth no more than 3000/100000 that of a western life. Is this the argument?
You forgot to reduce: that's .03, or 3%.
posted by pullayup at 9:16 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
That implies that an Iraqi life is worth no more than 3000/100000 that of a western life. Is this the argument?
I see your point, but I guess I'm arguing that intents matter more than outcomes. I don't think even Dick Cheney thought "hey, maybe we'll hit some little Muslim kids in a playground, that'd be a bonus!". But I think ISIS's ideology is precisely that. The more collateral damage, the better. There's a mythical sky god that thinks we're the chosen people and wants us to ... kill people so our random sub-sect-of-a-sub-sect can sit in a pile of rubble and cut off each other's hands and shit? I'm sorry, theirs is just objectively an incorrect world view. I don't buy cultural relativism in this case. Some cultures in the world are trying to progress beyond primitivism. Do they fuck up? Yes. Are there bad consequences for climate, resources, etc? Yes. But is the *primary goal* to kill unbelievers? No. I would rather live in a global corporate state with a new iPhone shoved down my throat every year forever than in one where people want to just randomly kill me for no reason (hopefully we have other choices). Yes, in the US we have mass shootings for other reasons, but the broader culture sees them as bad and struggles to prevent them. ISIS is building a culture specifically around murder, rape, and destruction as end goals. There's no amount of past suffering that excuses that.
posted by freecellwizard at 9:18 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
Really?
I tend to look at numbers. Ordering a military action that results in the death of 100,000+ civilians is not worse than the killing of 200+ innocents (or 3000+ innocents for that matter)?
That implies that an Iraqi life is worth no more than 3000/100000 that of a western life. Is this the argument?
It appears the above commenter was arguing moral culpability on the basis of intent, not of effect, although that distinction can be blurry. What is not known is the counterfactual: how many more innocent lives would have been lost had the military intervention not been undertaken. (The answer may have been more, and it may very well have been less.)
Regardless, I think drawing such comparisons, one way or another, is not particularly helpful. The loss of innocent life in any context is a tragedy.
posted by ageispolis at 9:21 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
This attempt to pile on statistics about whose country has done what strikes me as nothing more than victim blaming and shaming.
posted by humanfont at 9:40 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
It's also no longer a peace symbol if you do that. The effect is accidental.
So was Lisa Simpson Giving A Blowjob. Doesn't mean the effect isn't there.
posted by eriko at 11:43 AM on November 14, in thread 154694
Did you know 44 people were killed in a suicide bombing in Lebanon yesterday?
Did facebook have a check-in for this? Or does that only happen when people get killed in mostly white countries or ones with lots of tourism.
(i really struggled with how to phrase this in a way that didn't sound flip, but that feature makes me really angry because it does consistently seem to be applied that way. One of the only times i've seen it pop up outside of that was during the storm in mexico... where a lot of my friends were on vacation)
posted by emptythought at 2:44 PM on November 14, in thread 154694
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